Against the Grain – Purpose Maker Podcast

We are honored that Dr. Wegmann of Purpose Maker Podcast invited Jason to sit down for a chat.  Enjoy!

Topic: The Genesis of Little Bay Boards

Dr. Wegmann: All right, we’re live. Welcome to another recording of Purposemaker. Uh this is a wisdom and leadership gets into some uh interesting conversations on business and life. Uh today I’ve got a very interesting guest. Jason’s here. Jason, thanks for joining me.

Jason Thelen: Hi. Thanks for having me, man. I’m excited about this.

Dr. Wegmann: This is good. We’ve been trying to connect for a little while, so this is going to be a a good conversation.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Um, last I remember we were trying to get together. You were going down to Miami.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah, I was on my way down to the International Boat Show to show some boards down there. Yeah. Yeah. It’s gonna be good. So, I’m going to give him a formal introduction and then we’re going to get rocking and uh we’re going to pick his brain and get a little wisdom out of him. Have a good conversation today. So, all right. So Jason Thalen, master carpenter, husband, father, northern Michigan native, and founder of Little Bay Boards. He’s here in Paskki, and most importantly, he’s a Christian. Jason built his first wooden board, wooden paddle board in 2012 for his daughter. He’s the fifth generation great grandson of Chief Paskki, the man that our city was actually named after. He has since handcrafted over 500 boards from sustainable wood. Sir Richard Branson rides a little bay board, too. So, we’ll hear about that story. And Jason has proven that when you lead with purpose and refuse to compromise your craft, the world takes notice. Welcome, Jason.

Jason Thelen: Thanks, man. Thank you. That was a nice intro. Makes me sound a lot more fancy than what I thought I am.

Dr. Wegmann: All right. Little Bayboards arguably builds some of the nicest boards in the country. Arguably. Yeah. Yeah. So, nobody just sets out to do that. like you didn’t one day set up a table and go, I’m going to build the nicest board in the world. So, let’s start with this Genesis story. Clearly, you had to have some wood knowledge prior to attempting that first board.

Jason Thelen: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Wegmann: So, you were a carpenter. Tell me about that.

Jason Thelen: Uh yeah. Um I started carpentry um like real carpenting when I was in my 20s, I guess, after I met my wife when we were still dating. Uh before that, my dad always had a wood shop. Um my my stepfather always had a little wood shop. It was basically like beer drinking area, you know, kind of thing. Got baseball playing in the background. He would like refinish furniture here and there and stuff. So I’d go in there and tinker with stuff and make little things, you know, try to sell them at school and whatnot. And um as I grew up, um I got into the kitchen business in Paskki, Michigan. There’s only service industry when you’re a child. So I was working in kitchens and I met my to be wife. Um, I think I must have been like 22 or 23, maybe 24. And her dad was a carpenter and I was in between jobs at the time. Um, I was trying out for um, a really elite chef, Chef Garrett down in 3 minutesum, car the boy at the uh, country club down there. And I had a 90-day trial period with him. I had no culinary education other than just busting and grinding through kitchens my whole life. And when I went into the interview, I I distinctly remember him saying, “You’re like the 60th person that’s trying to get this job. Why should I hire you?” And I was like, “Yes, chef. No, chef. You’ll never hear anything else from me.” You’re hired. I was like, “Okay, sweet.” So, but I had 90 days with him. So, I was only working, you know, three days a week or something like that. And, um, Julie, my wife, her father needed somebody to clean up shingles where I was over there for like Thanksgiving dinner. It was like first family dinner that I’d went over there for. And, uh, I I could probably do that. Yeah, I’ll pay you nine bucks an hour. I was like, “All right.” You know, and this is way back in the 90s.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. When $9 an hour actually something. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: So, um, and so I started with him and after the 90 days of waiting to find out if I could be hired for by the chef who was like the best chef in Northern Michigan. No questions. You know, culinary honors and all kinds of stuff. I mean, like and uh when he sat me down to hire me, he’s like, “Yeah, you can be hired.” And I I remember him offering me I think it was like $13 an hour going to be all nights, all weekends, all holidays, everything else like that. You know, good job culinary wise. Sure. Back then and I said, “Well, can I think about it for the weekend?” And I went and talked to John um at, you know, my father-in-law now, but at the time he was big John. And he said, you know, I asked him if I could come on full-time. I kind of like what I’m doing. had learned a couple little things here and there was, you know, helping doing siding and stuff like that, help roofing and and whatnot. And I was like, it just seems like there’s a lot more education than what’s going on here. And I kind of like it. Like, yeah, I’ll pay you 15 bucks an hour. And I would that seems smarter because it’s $2 more. Only work during the week, have the weekends off, all holidays off, you know, I get to learn stuff. And obviously, I don’t know anything. So, it’s going to be a, you know, education and um financial incentive to grow. o, um, I started working and John’s fascinating man. He he grew up doing it hard knocks in California, you know, and earthquake codes and stuff like that. And, uh, so I learned everything from laying footings to, you know, putting a roof on and everything in between throughout the years of working for him and eventually became lead carpenter for his company. Um, then became finish carpenter and we did really high-end homes and whatnot. We did all kinds of stuff different building businesses and all kinds of just tons and tons and tons of things. I was a very uh very lucky man to be able to have that kind of toutelage um to go to at any given time that God was um God granted me the the ability to learn from John and not only the aspects of woodworking but uh a hell of a family man a hell of a Catholic and um still learn some other things that were important.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah.

Jason Thelen: still this day. He’s my go-to rock that you know something you need some kind of advice about anything in life, you got to call.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: That got my woodworking going and then basically I just Yeah, I really love building homes. I still do it to this day on the side. I’m still building times.

Topic: Heritage and Family History in Petoskey

Dr. Wegmann: So, one of the things you uh that I read in your when I was reading your introduction there was fifth generation Paskki. Yeah. Right. Mhm. So for the listeners that live here, tell us what that is. I mean, there’s going to be people listening to this all over the world, but being fifth generation, that means that your fifth generation grandfather Yeah. founded this area.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Um my that would be I think it’s fifth or sixth. So great great great grandfather was Ignatius Paskki. And the story is kind of skewed as far as history goes. My grandmother Paskki told me the story when I was a young man. She passed when I was 14. Um, but my best understanding of it is Ignatius was a beaver trapper, fur trapper. Like beaver was, you know, the economy of the world before oil and stuff like that. Um, you look into it, you find out the history guy. I forget who what his name was started with a richest man in America.

Dr. Wegmann: Back then.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Yeah. For beaver trade. So, and then he was up here and from what my understanding is, Ignatius was a a French trapper, French Irishman, and um his last name was Pettisa and was Ignatius Pigga, but he ended up marrying the uh chief of the trib’s daughter and then as time went on, he became honorary chief as the the chief passed away or whatever. And this is at a time where Chief wasn’t really that, you know, it’s not like they weren’t living in TPS anymore kind of thing, you know, it wasn’t like he a little more civilized.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It was more civilized things.

Jason Thelen: So, and then he was just a major prominent person in this, you know, small area that was becoming a logging industry and stuff like that, trapping, um, whatnot. So, when they decided to name the town, they wanted to name it after him. Um, but Pediga, they thought was a little too native and a little too hard to pronounce. They changed it to Paskki so it could have the ski on the end because it sounded a little bit more Polish, better for tourism.

Dr. Wegmann: Oh yeah, the ski. Paskki.

Jason Thelen: Yep. Yeah. So yeah, that’s my understanding of how it is. Obviously historians can totally change that away, but that’s what grandma told me and I’ll stick with it. Oh. So So yeah, then you know, generation after generation. My father was David Paskki. Um he different lifestyle growing up. He was uh got drafted into Vietnam right out of high school. barely even graduated and had to go. And then um apparently he had a good time and signed up three more times for three more tours. So four tours total. Uh the last tour wasn’t good for him. Um and he came back uh you know at that time he was gone and then he came back his parents had separated and he had no home to became a lack of a better word a degenerate in a lot of different ways. And uh he met my mom. She’s a very young woman. And uh they had me and then my father. He ended up in a u a scuffle at a party one evening murdered. Oh jeez. When I was young. So that’s why I don’t have the Paskki name or anything like that. My mom never wanted him to be tied to having to raise me child support or anything like that. Even though like child support back then was like $10 a month or something, right? But uh so yeah, it just went on. So I just kept her maiden name as I grew up.

Dr. Wegmann: M yeah. Yeah. I’m sorry to hear that.

Jason Thelen: Oh, that’s all right. I was like two and a half, I believe, when he passed away. I only have like one solid memory of him, you know. I was really young man. But so yeah, that whole growth pattern. She met my stepdad, Chuck, relatively soon after that. I think they got married about four or five.

Dr. Wegmann: Mhm.

Jason Thelen: And he’s a good man. You know, I have no complaints. You know, I was raised by a big father figure. Sure. In one way or another. Sure. Yep. So they were just very young, you know, very young parents.

Topic: Overcoming a Wild Childhood and Learning to Fight

Dr. Wegmann: Um, so you get raised in Paskki and you were a straight A student, right?

Jason Thelen: On the contrary.

Dr. Wegmann: So tell me about that.

Jason Thelen: I was, uh, to sum it up in a lot of ways, um, I was a a very old soul and a very young body. My parents were very very very very young. Um, my mother was had me.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah.

Jason Thelen: And um and back then in the 70s legal drinking age was 18. Oh wow. So you know some some paths of people’s journeys drastically change when you you add alcohol to it. Um so I grew up in a biker bar for a very short period of time and then directly associated with the biker bar for a long time. Um there’s nothing wrong with bikers, don’t take it that way. you know, they’re some of the goodest nice people in the world, but every tribe has it its little weak points here and there. Sure. And uh so I had a a really different upbringing compared to most people. I didn’t know anything different from it. um you know, raised Yeah. It was colorful. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Exactly. Um one story I I tell my children, stuff like that. I didn’t know that going when I went to school in like kindergarten. Um I I started really late. You know, my parents didn’t know that there’s sign me up and stuff like that. So, I ended up I think I started when I was like six.

Dr. Wegmann: A year late. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. And uh I got into some conflicts right away. I wasn’t used to people telling me what to do or expecting me to do things or fall in line or anything like that. You know, I grew up as just a a latch key. Just nobody even noticed I was there kind of thing. You know, feed me every once in a while. Make sure I slept somewhere. Usually a couch someplace at a party or something like that or at the club. you know, you sleep out in a car because it’d be too loud inside kind of thing. And uh I ended up in a couple scuffles because when I was small, I watched men handle things like men physically. Yeah. With their fist. Yeah. So, I thought that was how you resolved situations, you know. So, I I I I remember beating up a kid really really really bad in fifth grade. I won’t mention his name. He’s still a local. Um cuz he had made a girl cry and that wasn’t allowed, right? you know, and my dad, my stepdad had to come in and talk to the principal, and I never got in any trouble. I had to go back to class, but like he broke his nose. Wow. Sprained his thumb, blood all the way down the hallway. It was terrible. Um, so that some point I learned that’s probably not how you’re supposed to do things, but back then, you know, boys fought. It’s just the way it was, you know, that’s how we boys, the packwolf, whatever thing. Sure. you know. Um, but yeah, as I then I grew up, school wasn’t good for me. I uh I’m mostly dyslexic, I guess. You know, self diagnosed, never been really officially diagnosed, but I struggle with that a lot. Um, and read not real well. Like names and stuff like that. I just have to make up like a picture in my head because I I can never pronounce them properly, especially certain books, you know, have really weird names in them and whatnot. And uh ADHD, obviously, I’m an artist, you know, that just kind of comes with the crack of it all. So in like ninth grade, the faculty sat me down and explained to me that they had voted me most likely to end up in prison and they were concerned about my well-being. And at that time they they had reasons for it. My parents were crazy, you know, and we had a whole lot of stuff going on. Nothing. My parents were never bad to me. I had a roof over my head.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure.

Jason Thelen: You know, but um they they just heard stories party and about it. Um, but then they were right. I dropped out I think a week after that. Um, moved out of my parents house when I was 15.

Dr. Wegmann: 15 years old. You moving out of your parents?

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. There was a whole scenario there. Yep. You know, um, like I said, my childhood was really quite wild and uh there was a point in their life where they were trying to restructure and all of a sudden they decided that they wanted to become new parents, new people. my my little sister was born and um they were trying to restructure things and all a sudden there was rules and I wasn’t going to play by those. I didn’t have rules my whole life and I was like no no no I I got something else I want to do. I’ll go do my own thing. Yep. Yeah. So I left. Um that was really difficult. Um it’s impossible to rent a place when you’re 15 years old, you know.

Dr. Wegmann: What did you do? Live with some friends?

Jason Thelen: Uh, I couch talked for a little bit and then I kept applying to apartments and I finally learned through just education of the conversations that I was having with people. So, I found this one lady. She had a like a third story attic that had been redone and it had a little little tiny place up there. I love that place. Still love it to this day. I wish I could still I think it’s probably still a rental. It’s probably a lot nicer. But um so I I went there and I explained to her I was like I understand their situation. I do have a job. I will pay my rent. I can give you the first six months and then I’ll continue rent monthly. So, you know that I’m okay. So, if I ever walk away, you have five months of rent in your pocket at any given time. And uh she agreed to that. She understood what was going on at that point. So, financially, she wasn’t going to be hurt. I love that little place. Like 275 a month.

Dr. Wegmann: Oh, I love it.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. But and then yeah, I just structured my life and like I said, worked in kitchens all the time and uh other you know, investment things that I was trying to do and slowly grew up.

Topic: Building the Very First Paddleboard

Dr. Wegmann: Well, we have a a neat little connection. I’m a big fan of art. Just I just think artists move at a different frequency, think differently. So, I remember reading an article about you. I think that was the first time I called you up when I came over and visited you when you at your parents garage. Um, and I’ve seen every shop you’ve had since then. I know there was one previous to that, but yeah, the evolution of that process has been amazing. So, talk about you you start building that first board for your daughter.

Jason Thelen: Yeah.

Dr. Wegmann: Talk about when you said, “All right, I want to start doing this.” And I don’t know there was ever a definitive decision on it. Um, that was 13 years ago. You know, back then paddle boarding was a really brand new thing and there was only a couple companies that were making P paddle boards. There was only like maybe two or three stores in Northern Michigan possibly find one and they were like $2,000 maybe, you know, $200 or $3,000 for a decent looking cool one, right? And um wooden or nope or no?

Jason Thelen: No, you can get a laminated one that had um like I forget had one that had like bamboo on it or whatever.

Dr. Wegmann: Was it like a foam?

Jason Thelen: Yeah, foam core. Yeah. Yeah. And uh so I was looking online trying to find like maybe a used one even though it was pretty new and stuff like that but we couldn’t afford one but we really liked doing it. My brother-in-law bought one when we were on vacation one time and all the kids really liked it. I really enjoyed it quite a bit being able to get out there and just be alone. Um there’s something about being that far away from all humans and all society.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure.

Jason Thelen: You know um really struck me deeply. So I was just googling around trying to find something you know if I could afford something something used or something like that. maybe something broken, fix it or whatnot. And I found uh how to build your own wooden surfboard kit that you could purchase or um a booklet. And uh so I started studying into that and realized, well, the paddle board’s not any different than a surfboard except for volume, you know.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: So um I decided to build I would start with a small one for my daughter Shaunie. At the time she was nine and uh it would be able to float her shoe something, you know.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah.

Jason Thelen: So, I did some calculations, whatnot, and then um I had some old fascia and some old wood, whatnot, and I just built this board and I made it look kind of cool. You know, I’ve been a finished carpenter for years at that point, and you know, loved playing with wood and whatnot. Sure. 18 minutesIt looked a lot like this board really in a lot of ways.

Dr. Wegmann: And this is one of your boards. Yeah. So, what year did you build this one?

Jason Thelen: I built this one like maybe three or four years ago. Um a pintail 74 pintail surfboard. I didn’t start doing surfboards until just a couple years ago.

Dr. Wegmann: Um, so that could be taken out and literally surfed on the ocean.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Yeah. You’re going to need a big wave for that one. Yeah. It’s got to be about an 8 foot plus wave for that. Yeah. That’s a big wave. It’s like you’re if you’re really good surfer, you have you could be on that. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. But I just wanted to build it because it’s sexy looking because it’s cool.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Super cool. Yeah. Yep. So, yeah.

Jason Thelen: So, that first board and I built it and it was just fun, you know, it was an accomplishment. I had made something that could float in water out of wood. It was eco-friendly and I was kind of proud of that. Um that was part of in our my building career of homes. We built eco-friendly um green homes for quite a while. Um my father father uh father-in-law John got a national award for recognized for one of the most eco consciousness being conscious of what we do in this world.

Dr. Wegmann: Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. You got to do that in a lot of ways.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. So yes, you do. I’d always had that in my my back pocket. So I thought that was kind of cool. But I built that first board and that was it. No big deal. And then everywhere we took it, nobody would shut up about it, you know. So I was constantly talking. I mean, grocery stores, stop lights, at the beach, of course.

Dr. Wegmann: Oh, yeah.

Jason Thelen: You know, and I was, yeah, you know, I just did it for fun. And me and the wife were sitting there talking about it. She’s like, maybe you could build one, you know, we maybe sell it for like 400 bucks or something. We have Christmas money this year.

Dr. Wegmann: Oh, what a neat idea.

Jason Thelen: Yeah, that’d be cool. Let’s get some Christmas money. That’s a good idea. So, we did that and then that perpetuated the next one. The next one, my sister-in-law Amy had reached out to a local store here, Lake Effect, Molly Kercher, had that little store and talked to her a little bit about it. And Molly sponsored me for about a year building supports for her store and then fair amount of her friends.

Dr. Wegmann: Nice.

Jason Thelen: And whatnot. And uh during that time, technically didn’t know what I was doing. I just only built one and then another one. And um so you know in in the spirit of true business you say you can do it long before you ever know how to do it and you learn how to do it. So um I just kept learning and learning and learning and kept perfecting it more and more and um I’d reached out to Paul Jensen at the time who invented the modern day Hollywood and surfboards and talked to him back and forth like he ignored me for the longest time and I just kept reaching out over it. Just beat the door down.

Dr. Wegmann: Yep. Yeah. He just

Jason Thelen: Yeah. you know, yes or no questions. And I finally finally broke his shell and uh we ended up becoming really good friends. I just talked to him two days ago. Um talked through this whole career of mine and uh he helped educate me even more and more on things. Um fascinating man, unbelievable worker and just spirit of a surfer whatsoever. Done so many cool things. M um so yeah, I just I built boards and it was just I just kept building them and I always had one on order and I somebody helped me start a Facebook page at that point. My wife named the company Little Bay boards. Um I was going to call it like Mini Haha Boards or something like that. I don’t remember but it just she picked a fabulous name.

Dr. Wegmann: She did. Yeah. We we worked for a really long time talking about you know different ideas and stuff but you know way smarter than I am. So I always listen to her when it comes to certain things. I think that’s true for all of us to get married. They’re way smarter than us.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. The the gift of my wife is unquestionable to my success in every way whatsoever.

Topic: Scaling the Shop and Production Processes

Dr. Wegmann: All right. So, the small garage, couple hundred square feet. How big is the shop now?

Jason Thelen: Uh 10,000 square feet.

Dr. Wegmann: Wow. Yep. That’s a beautiful shop.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Thanks. Yeah.

Dr. Wegmann: Connected with Keegan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was quite the fascinating story, man. So, turned a lot of people on to that one. Awesome. Well, thank you. And Jason stepped up to uh Keegan had done some woodworking and boards for his healing. So, I can I contacted you and said, “Hey, got an interesting podcast guest on. You know, could you maybe spend an hour and show them some stuff?” So, I 22 minutesthink that’s in the books to Yep. to do that. So, I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. No, no problem. I’m more than happy. I love it when people come into the shop, man. You know, so many people walk in and look at boards and talk about it and then they say, “I’m a little bit of a woodworker.” And I’m like, you want to come in the back, see the real stuff?

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. It’s like you want Yeah. Your showroom’s gorgeous. Thanks. By the way. Yeah. Yeah. So, if you want to see the boards, where are you located?

Jason Thelen: We’re at 355 North Division up at the top of the hill of the corner of Mitchell and Division Hill’s building back. Paskki, Michigan. Yep.

Dr. Wegmann: Get up there and take a peek at them. All right. So, I was telling some people last night, I had a podcast with you. One of the questions was, “How long does it take from start to finish to build a board?”

Jason Thelen: We average about 40 to these days. Um, some boards can take over 100 depending on how intricate the design is. So that be like a custom order.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: Our bread and butter is a lot of custom work. Um, we do we have a fair amount of ready to ride boards, you know, in stock if you wanted to purchase today. A lot of them are artist choice and then we do have a couple definitive lines that we run where we build we plan on building 25 of that design. Y so that way it’s still a limited series kind of thing.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure. And then you would so if you build 25 you’re done with that production and you go to some like a different design would just change it up to something else. Yeah. Do you tag them like does this say one?

Jason Thelen: No, that would be all smart and stuff. Really good business.

Dr. Wegmann: That’s the next thing. They’re going to get that little wooden engrave like right one of 25.

Jason Thelen: Yep. Yeah. I always tell there nothing planned out was planned out in this business, you know? I mean there was no thought of I was going to be uh you know a a world known paddle board builder. I was just building or

Dr. Wegmann: That’s because you’re an artist.

Jason Thelen: I was just trying to pay the bills. Yeah. You know, so as it grew, it just kept growing and I just kept, you know, being fascinated by how much attention it would get and, you know, the board sell themselves, whatnot, and try to go with the strides of it all and buy better tools, make better capabilities of part that I could put into anything that I’ve done so far.

Topic: Laser Technology and the Art of Fine Woodworking

Dr. Wegmann: And I’ve seen your shop. You got the one big room that’s got the huge machine. Is that a CNC or a laser?

Jason Thelen: It’s a CNC laser. So So it’s both. Yeah, it’s a computerized laser. So, yeah, it runs just like a like a router head CNC machine would run, but it runs a laser instead of a router head because router head doesn’t get us the finest detail that we want.

Dr. Wegmann: So, this is a simple question. How does the laser not start the wood on fire?

Jason Thelen: It burns it so fast and at such a small micron. It’s only burning at 004 of a millimeter to cut through the line. Oh, wow. And then it’s uh instantly putting itself out. It’s a giant vacuum. Like the biggest vacuum in Northern Michigan probably. It’s sucking all that dust out of there.

Dr. Wegmann: Sucks it out. Yep. Yeah. And just shoots all the smoke outside. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: So, it puts stuff out if we cut through. There’s certain like 3/4 material and stuff like that that on fire every once in a while.

Dr. Wegmann: Get a little bit more.

Jason Thelen: Usually the air will draft it out and or increase it, but got water and you throw it on it right away.

Dr. Wegmann: So, you’re sitting there watching the process constantly. Yeah. Just you can’t start that and go have a coffee.

Jason Thelen: No. There’s some things you can be comfortable with knowing they’re going to run all right. You know, our 8 inch material is not going to catch on fire. And if it did, it’s not going to burn very long. But you stuff out. But yeah, three/4er stuff. You got to just be right there.

Topic: Balancing Passion, Business, and Family

Dr. Wegmann: All right. So, tell me about merging the artist and the business. Oh, yeah. That’s a pretty open-ended end question.

Jason Thelen: Um, the I don’t I don’t know that I’m a businessman in any way, you know. Um, I I luck out and we pay our bills. Um, I have partners I have had for a long time. Ever since the big building, even before the big building, the shop in between the first garage where I met you, um, the shop in between that was a 2500 square foot shop, which size of my glassing room now down on the river.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. The one down on the river. Yep. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: I moved into that at that time. That was my first move when I quit my day job, that shop. Mhm. Um, that was a very trying time of life. Um, just before that, I’d worked in my parents garage, you know, hanging out with dad, drinking beer, building boards at night, working a week at my regular job, and then working another 50 to in that garage, right? You know, I’d go in there at 4:00 in the morning and work till 7:30 and then go to my job. Otherwise, you wouldn’t get anything done, right? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s just growing just growing the the reputation of Little Bayboards. Just kept growing it and growing and growing it. not really technically making a whole lot of money but making money you know back then it was just cash so yep you know product um but then you know we had to have the hard conversation of I’m never home my family suffering like that you know I’d come home one night at like midnight you know I’d left at like 4 in the morning and I coming home it’s probably day in a row or something like that and my wife’s sitting at the table we’re asleep I’m like oh there’s two beers at the table I’m getting divorced. Like I I know this, but I’ve been ignoring the family. I’ve been trying to do something. So, we sat down, had the conversation. She explained to me some heartfelt situations with the children. And uh I uh I all right, I I’ll go back to I’ll go back to building homes. You know, we have we have retirement plan with homes.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure.

Jason Thelen: We have insurance. We have everything that you know, a family needs, what what a husband’s supposed to provide. She’s like, “Yeah, you could do that, but you’re going to be just you’re going to be an for the rest of your life.” You know, right? You didn’t chase your dream.

Dr. Wegmann: Well, she’s very blunt. I love this.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. She’s like, she’s got boundaries. Yep. Oh, yeah. She’s like, you know, I think you should probably just keep trying it for a little while. It can pay the bills if stay on top of it. Yeah. I was like, all right. So, you know, I just kept trying to do it. And obviously, it didn’t pay the bills at all times, but, you know, I just I’m too dumb to quit. So, I just tried and tried and tried.

Dr. Wegmann: So, wait, that’s the quote of the month right there. If you want the secret to business, be too dumb to quit. That’s that’s entrepreneurship wrapped up. It is. If you want to beful Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And I don’t even know that I’m successful. I mean, we still struggle all the time, you know, with certain things here and there, but the constant reminder just had this conversation the other day where we’re trying to um expand our marketing, which I don’t I know very little about. I just built something cool, tell the world that I built something cool, they come to us and buy it, right? When you get into bigger business and you want to actually maybe cause a profit, you got to start Yeah, you got to market like that. So, yeah, talking about that kind of stuff is

Dr. Wegmann: So, here’s a little trick I learned about business. Everybody focuses on the service or the product. Basically, you have a marketing company that delivers a service or a product. So, if you think about it that way, it starts to change. Yeah. You start thinking, I have to market. And market’s basically just getting your story out is really what it comes down to. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, you’re going to do fabulous once the marketing starts maybe really picking up. Who knows, you know? No, it’s all just people resonate with your stuff. Your stuff is it’s different.

Jason Thelen: It is. I tried to make it different. The whole structure of it, the whole idea of the boards when I thought about making it a business, it was they got to do you got to have three purposes to it. It’s got to be the coolest thing that anybody’s ever seen. It’s got to be eco-friendly because it’s better for the planet, which is a non-given. Y and coolest, prettiest, and most cost effective. I mean, as longlasting as possible. You know, they’re lifelasting boards. If you treat it like a paddle board, you’ll give it to your children, die, right? You know, kind of thing like that.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Like an heirloom piece.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. So, I just wanted to in in a competitive market of foam dominated, you know, throwaway world that we live in, the economy that we live in. Yeah. I wanted something that just stood out no matter what. And then I started making them really cool looking and beyond.

Dr. Wegmann: Well, yeah. There’s an emotional component. Yeah. To these. People are are viscerally changed when they stand in your when they’re looking at these things. Yeah. Mhm. All right. So, going down to the Miami boat show is a marketing trip. Yeah. Tell me about that. How crazy is that show?

Jason Thelen: It was crazy. You know, Miami is its own little world. I’m, you know, I’m a small little country bunkan.

Topic: Navigating the Show Circuit and Yacht Customization

Jason Thelen: Um I don’t like cities um in any way whatsoever, but you get got to suffer through it and do it. Um it’s all shows are shows, you know. It’s I saw a huge product. So just taking it down there just I knew that there’s going to be a mass amount of people there and it’s a good spot to be. You know, one of the most effective ways of marketing is go to where there’s a lot of people. Let them see your product.

Dr. Wegmann: What do you do? Bring the biggest boards like 14 16 footers and just stand them straight up.

Jason Thelen: All of them were the 10-footers that we had had. Um, and you just you stand them all up and yeah, they stand way above everybody else around there and everything and they’re wood, you know, and you’re at a boat show that’s, you know, it’s all big corporations, the nice the nice ties and, you know, the 31 minutesspread and they’re handing out their

Dr. Wegmann: Are you in your board shorts and you’re

Jason Thelen: Yeah, I’m barefoot locks, you know, drinking a beer usually.

Dr. Wegmann: Perfect.

Jason Thelen: Perfect. You know, just hanging out and being, you know, I’m just an artist. It’s like if I’m just showing you what I make. That’s all there is to it. You know, you’re you’re lucky enough to find me.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure.

Jason Thelen: call it like that, you know, and try to play that magical edge of it all and then if they want to have a serious conversation about, you know, an offer and our prices, stuff like that, then we go into it. But yeah, for the most part, it’s just trying to gather more people just the more people that see it, the more people that buy it. So So that that puts an image in my head. Obviously, we’ve got a big boating market up here in Northern Michigan and we’ve got some gorgeous boats. Mhm. Making some type of a hanger where you take a picture of one of your boards hanging off the side of a yacht. Yeah. And that’s like your marketing.

Jason Thelen: Yep. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. We’ve been talking about that. Um in the Miami boat show, we met some uh market or uh yacht management companies and we’ve been kind of talking back and forth with them. They’re down in the Virgin Islands. Um so eventually we’ll hopefully grow into something like that and getting more yacht owners clientele that we don’t around.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Because a lot of people would pull that off their yacht and go explore

Jason Thelen: Yeah.

Dr. Wegmann: little islands and coes and

Jason Thelen: Yep. Yeah, we’re building one right now for a gentleman. He’s buying it for his wife and it’s her dinghy to get off the sailboat onto the island kind of thing. Sailing around the world.

Dr. Wegmann: Wow, that’s neat. Yeah. Fun. What’s the What’s the board that you’ve put the most into? Um, the most of you. The most of me.

Jason Thelen: Every board. Uhhuh. Yeah. Every board’s my baby.

Dr. Wegmann: I bet. Every single one. Most. Is it hard to sell them when that happens?

Jason Thelen: Um, I know that they’re going someplace. Their whole birth was to go someplace else. So, yeah, basically just adopt things out.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Off they go. Yeah, you should do that. There should be adoption papers. That’d be hilarious. No problems. Take care of this. Call this number if you ever want to get rid of this baby. Great. Yeah.

Topic: Innovations in Design: Hollow Boards and Translucent Finishes

Jason Thelen: Um, I don’t know. You know, I’ve always challenged myself from the very first board to, you know, the one I’m working on right now and just try to be better than the next one, better than the next one. You know, they’re all I feel like I’ve kind of capped out at times, but then also to come up with any crazy idea, you know, the the lightest thing that’s ever been made, you know, it’s got to be the most authentic. Um, Pocapelli right now is my my shining light in my showroom right now and that’s a completely frameless board and the light shines through the whole board because it’s hollow.

Dr. Wegmann: Oh, that’s got to be beautiful. Beautiful.

Jason Thelen: It is amazing. Um, and as soon as that one sells, I have the next one in my brain, which is a really, really cool design. So, I’m excited about building that one coming up next. You know, that’ll be like a 10 $15,000 board.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. I don’t know if this is buildable, but it makes me think. Um, excuse me. I’ve been in some of those 34 minuteslike uh I don’t know if it’s glass or plastic um canoes where you can see right through them. Yeah, it’d be amazing to build one that literally had a viewing window so you could see the fish.

Jason Thelen: Yeah, there probably be a way of doing that. Um I’ve I’ve helped design a board one time. Paul Jensen ended up building it for this gentleman, um, a photographer for Nokia, Nokia, whatever. Um, where it had a an area that you could pull out and you could either put glass in it so you could see down so you could take pictures of fish or you could pull it all the way out and he could put his body down in the middle of it to get up close to waterfall and stuff like that.

Dr. Wegmann: Oh, interesting.

Jason Thelen: So, yeah, that one was I helped help helped with the design. Paul ended up building it for him. Um,

Dr. Wegmann: was it a um paddle board?

Jason Thelen: Yeah, it was a paddle board. Yeah. Complete with like attachable tunes and stuff like that. So he wheel stable.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah.

Jason Thelen: And then it had like a carved out area where you could put a cooler uh a Yeti cooler at the time so he keep all his camera equipment. He’s going out all day. Sealed out.

Dr. Wegmann: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was a big time photographer. Yeah. Big time. How neat.

Jason Thelen: Yep. So yeah, our glassing structure makes the It’s not um completely trans um transparent. It’s translucent. So light can come through it, but the glass kind of fades it out a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Often.

Dr. Wegmann: Well, that’s one of the next challenges to build a board you can see through and yeah, go over the coral reefs and be like, “Look, man.”

Jason Thelen: Yeah, there’ll be a lot of there’s a lot of more education coming to that as far as glasses. All this stuff that I got into building boards. I didn’t realize that I was going to be so scientific about everything, but I’m one of those people that you can’t just tell that that’s why you do it. I have to know why it’s done that way, you know? It’s what made me such a good builder for homes and stuff like that. I had to learn why you do it. Yeah. I’m very curious. Can’t just tell me that’s how it’s done. Same same problem I had in school. Don’t just tell me why. You can’t just tell me. Yeah. Give me the details. I need Yeah. I need to know exactly why, you know. Same same with religion and stuff like that. Yeah. There’s some deep questions there.

Topic: A Radical Shift: Finding Faith and Forgiveness

Dr. Wegmann: So, speaking of that, Mhm. Um just from what you were describing in your upbringing, it doesn’t sound like you were your upbringing was in the church. No. Nope. Not at all. Um and you definitely identify as a Christian now. How did that process happen? Um, and the grace of a good woman and how much has it saved your life?

Jason Thelen: It it it inevitably saved everything. Yeah, it changed my whole pathway, my my whole reason, logic, my whole purpose, everything. Um, as mentioned in my childhood and stuff like that, you know, um, my teenage and 20s were a really deplorable aspect of how humans should act. Um, you know, I just I went with the tide of things. I I had the wrong friends, wrong groups, the wrong things at all times. Um, I was good at it, too.

Dr. Wegmann: Well, I was professional at doing that. Real real good at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: just just got by a skin of my teeth. Now going to prison multiple times. Um almost been shot at, stabbed, have been in just terrible, terrible situations. Um somehow I made it through all that. Met Julie, um didn’t stand a chance with her. Way out of my league in every aspect whatsoever. But I was persistent bugger and eventually broke the ice and friends and that was it. friends six months, nine months and then eventually that moved into relationship and then uh like I said I started working for her father while we were dating and um I remember sitting with him one day and I don’t know I was overly upset about something at that time when I’d met her I’d quit doing all the things that I’d done as a younger man and was trying to change my life and she’d seen that. Um, but even if you change all your atmosphere and you still have you inside of you, you know, I had a lot of hate, a lot of anger, a lot of anger. I spent all my life being mad that my father was killed vengeance to kill the murderer. Lots of things there. And I distinctly remember sitting in my father-in-law, we were building his office in his barn. They just bought some property, ended up being a vineyard now. Um, and we were building this little office for uh company meetings and stuff like that and working in there with him at the time and we’re talking about whatever and it got a little deep into that those subjects, you know, and my childhood and some of the hate that I’ve harnessed most my life.

Dr. Wegmann: Carried in your heart. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. And he explained to me, you know, and and the thoughts of religion sometimes you leave things to God, you know, and God’s the the ultimate judge of everything. Nothing nothing I can do as a human judge somebody that is make a difference. God will take care of it, you know. and have that that understanding of allowing him to love you so that you can love him back knowing that he’s going to take care of it hit me real hard at that time in my life. It it it was something that I needed more than anything was the ability to forgive my past, you know, everybody in my past, not just the murder of my father, my parents, the way I was raised, my hatred of lots of things. And uh it it is still to this day is something that I look at. I wake up every morning and remember that God is there to take care of those problems for me. M um you know so it just it did um I ended up studying uh Catholicism very deeply for many many years. Um and then I got baptized when I was like 32 or 33 finally after like two years of RCIA because I couldn’t do just one year because you can’t just tell me that’s how it’s done. I have to understand it fully kind of thing. And um and then yeah, from there I just, you know, I I try to be I’m I’m terrible Catholic. You know, I try to be as Catholic as I can be, but I’m never going to be that good at it. Just like, you know, fatherhood. I’m best of a father as I can be, but I’m not the best ever, you know, or husband or anything else ability of being a human. Um I just know that I need to try and uh the concept of expressing love towards everybody and everything and a very nice blessing to have in life these days.

Dr. Wegmann: Nice. What a testimony. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And for a lady to not be afraid to speak to that. Yeah. That’s that’s cool. And for your father-in-law?

Jason Thelen: My father-in-law is bad. I can’t express how good of a man he is, you know. He’s he’s amazing. My mother-in-law is unbelievable as well, too.

Dr. Wegmann: Good people.

Jason Thelen: Yeah, they are good people. Yep. They come from good stock. Their their parents were fantastic. I was lucky enough to meet my wife early enough in life where I was able to meet her grandparents. Stuff like that too before they all passed.

Dr. Wegmann: Well, it’s amazing to think about that change in your life and then obviously that gift that it gives to your kids.

Jason Thelen: Yeah, I hope it does, you know.

Dr. Wegmann: Oh, it will. Kids are little kids are crazy, man. They can all be raised in the same house, be completely different little people. But if they’re raised in the word, no matter what happens, they’ll come back.

Jason Thelen: Yeah, that’s how that works. They have it straight. My daughters are uh unbelievable human. Yeah. I can’t explain how fascinated I am by two or three.

Dr. Wegmann: How many kids you have?

Jason Thelen: I have uh three daughters. Um from I have a previous daughter who is 33 from an engagement when I was in 20s and stuff like that. Um, we’ve recently maybe the last nine years have reconnected.

Dr. Wegmann: That’s got to be a great feeling. Know each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Fantastic. That was definitely a struggle in life to get that all figured out. And that that happened. She was a teenager when I found out about her, I think. So, um, but yeah, we’ve had a really nice connection since then. Um, so I have Shaunie, Laya, and Nora. So, 22, going to be 16, and just turned 10.

Dr. Wegmann: Awesome little girls. I have three daughters, too. So, yeah.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Yeah, they’re fascinating. I’m surrounded by women my whole life. Great. Um, both of us. But they are amazing. I don’t to no credit to me. I swear to God, they are they got everything off their mom. Obviously, I’m never home anyways. I’m working all the time as it is.

Dr. Wegmann: I thought we fixed that issue when your wife sat you down.

Jason Thelen: Nope. No. I I I started Little Bay boards and for, you know, maybe two years I’ I’d economically worked it where I was only working like maybe a week and we were having time of our life and then then I incorporated everything and had to learn how to pay taxes.

Topic: The Realities of Business Taxes and Providing for Family

Jason Thelen: Realize that you don’t actually man. Yeah. You don’t realize people Yeah. non-b businessiness owners are not going to understand this, but business owners can pay more in taxes a month than you pay on your mortgage. Like some people don’t understand how much that is, right? That’s a lot of money.

Dr. Wegmann: Oh yeah.

Jason Thelen: I never understood any of that, but yeah, at one point for some reason I thought that I was supposed to legalize stuff, you know, make it bigger and got got a website and all that stuff and growth of the company and then yeah, that made a big difference. And then as years go on, you know, economy is awful. Um, you know, things just cost so much, especially trying to raise children right way. Um, I’m really bad about spoiling my children. Um, I don’t they they don’t they don’t express themselves as spoiled in any way whatsoever, but I I refuse to tell them no for a lot of things, which is a struggle.

Dr. Wegmann: All right, let’s practice. No,

Jason Thelen: I grew up I grew up with nothing and nobody and I want them to be able to have those things. And I’m not talking, you know, I’m not talking like that. I’m talking about experiences.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: you know, uh, taking them places, traveling, you know, going seeing things, experiencing the world, you know, going getting educated, going to concerts, going to theater, just I want them to I don’t want them to go without. I went without my whole life. I don’t want them to go without. So, I’ll kill myself to that they have everything.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure. So, that has structured my life to the last five years, I’m still working . Jeez. Yeah. Easily. I work at Little Bayboards all day long, usually a day, and then I leave and I’ve been doing museum project for the last five years. Before that, I was always doing some kind of side side project, too. Um, but um, a gentleman I know is building a car museum and I have the talent and know how to build some of those to build it up. Yeah. Build some things.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. So yeah, I help with built like a diner and uh a general store and do some finish work and miscellaneous different things for them throughout all the time. And then plus I’m still doing side jobs all the time, too. Tables for restaurants, uh all kinds of stuff.

Dr. Wegmann: Just don’t forget your presence is the most important thing to those girls.

Jason Thelen: I wake them up every morning and spend breakfast with them and take them to school and then the next day breakfast again and then Saturday evenings I have off and Sunday is God’s day with church. Beautiful. Try to spend family time together the best that we can and then obviously there’s lots of vacation. I do have lots of days off. Yeah. Yeah. And I pick them up. Take them boarding and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We go camping and Yeah. I you know we have long weekends quite a bit too as I’m not just non-stop all the time working but there’s stretches where it’s pretty rough but it’s also a blessing to go work.

Topic: Legacy and Advice for the Next Generation

Dr. Wegmann: So thinking about your girls what would be some of the best advice you could give them if they’re going to listen to this podcast? You’d say, “Ladies, this is how this is how you should live. You should be curious, creative, forgive often. What What do you leave them with?

Jason Thelen: I don’t know. I I’d hope from my example of how I’ve structured my life in my my later adulthood. Um I don’t know if it’s necessarily advice as much as it is just one of the better pathways of life is to love to understand how to love everybody. Um, everybody in the world that you meet, you’re going to learn something off of. Be it good or be it bad. They’re going to be an example. Something you don’t want to do or something want to do. Um, nobody is to be judged. You know, God will take care of that part of it. Um, and every single moment is a blessing. No matter if it’s a bad moment or a good moment. Bad moments are just as important as good moments. Um, I recently read a thing uh that’s really impacted me in the last couple days. I think I read it last week that if everybody in the world was to take all their problems and put it in the hat, including you, would you reach back in the hat? Grab someone else’s problem. Yeah. Right. You know, I probably would not reach in the hat.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. Problems had that lot. Still got to get got to get through them. We all have them. Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was uh Theo Vaughn just had a podcast a little while ago and uh he mentioned um in the book of John in the Bible um when they’re at the pool and Jesus goes up and he’s talking to the um the leper and he asks him, “Do you want to be healed before he heals them?” Sitting on that question, do you want problem your identity? You are what you’ve been your whole life. Do you want to rebuild from that? Sure. Does that change your story? What is your story now? So kind of reaching back in that hat, pull out your different problem. That’s the give up any of my problems. That’s the centerpiece to a lot of the stuff we teach. Yeah. If you grab that triangle I put right there, that identity portion of life is enormous. Mhm. And we’re constant, this is constantly changing, right? Like who Jason is today and who Michael is today is totally different than what it was 10 years ago.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. the non-stop education is that’s something I expressed to my my workers and everybody I’m around. I wish I knew everything. But I also wish or I’m also happy that I don’t know everything. You know, every day is education. Every person you meet, every conversation you have, you learn from everything even at, you know, my my adolescent age 51.

Topic: Redefining Leadership and Authority

Dr. Wegmann: Well, here’s one of the gifts I was going to give you today. This is the called life’s golden ticket. Oh yeah. Yeah. This is something that we created for some of the leadership stuff we do. Oh, nice. So, you can see on there uh the LF, you know, the life. You can only lead from your life, right? Right. You can’t lead from someone else’s life.

Jason Thelen: But yeah, I’m so scared to be a leader, man. I’ve never I’ve never been able to comprehend the concept.

Dr. Wegmann: Wait, wait. Here’s the daily reminder. Your life is someone else’s leadership lesson. Live it on purpose. So you are a leader.

Jason Thelen: I want to be scared to be. Don’t want I don’t want to be the example that following. I don’t know what I’m doing.

Dr. Wegmann: You are.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. But how? I don’t know what I’m doing.

Dr. Wegmann: So that’s I don’t think anybody knows what they’re doing. Let’s just get this. I understand that. Let’s just say that out loud, right? Yeah. You’ve got to be bold enough to try, smart enough to learn, and the you’ve got these things, but your life is an example. And your kids are looking at you, and you are a leader. You’re a leader of your family. So leadership doesn’t mean you got to be on a stage talking to 5,000 people about this, right? We lead from where we are, right? And so your leadership is very important. And the way you live and what you’re explaining to me, Yeah. is important to the kids and people around you and you’re influencing me, right?

Jason Thelen: Right.

Dr. Wegmann: I mean, that’s what this conversation does. You’re influencing people that purchase your board to come in there and have a conversation. All those interactions, they matter. So, and then on the other one here, I put on here, the servant leaders creed. The most powerful thing you own is what you give away.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Amen to that, man.

Dr. Wegmann: Right. That’s the most powerful thing you own. So, a leader could spend and witness to somebody how Christ has changed your life. That’s leadership, right? Right. We get leadership mixed up because we try to always make it something outside of ourselves.

Jason Thelen: I always feel like it’s like a a term of authority almost. I’m constantly afraid of that.

Dr. Wegmann: You have you have a thing with authority figures? Yeah. Where’s that come from? Had that my whole life. Yeah. No, I don’t think it I can definitely see what you mean.

Jason Thelen: It’s a I don’t feel I’m overly confident man in a lot of ways. Uh, you know, I’m I spot my horn a little too much and I need to be more humble a lot times when it comes to like board building or woodworking or, you know, certain things like that. Um, I don’t know that I’m a master at anything. Everybody calls me a master board builder and a master carpenter.

Dr. Wegmann: Just tell them you’re a master student.

Jason Thelen: I am. I am. I’m always constantly learning. I teach a class about board building. Like, no, I don’t think I know everything boards in the world. I don’t know that I know everything. I just do my best.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure.

Jason Thelen: at all times. You know, I I’ve never hit a plateau of, oh yeah, I can I can tell everybody. Well, I’m the authority figure. I’m not I have no idea what I’m doing. Most of the time I I’m too stupid to give up. It’s the only reason why it turns out so good, you know, and it keeps getting better every year. And the same thing with kids, you know, they come to you with, you know, deep meaningful questions and the only thing I can do is say, in my experience, this is what I would say. I don’t know that’s right. I tell them that right.

Dr. Wegmann: It’s the only thing you can say. Yeah, that’s what the life stands for. You can lead from your life, right? Your labor, your influence, your finances, and your expertise, right? Those are that’s the core that we can give back. Yeah. And take your father-in-law talking to you in the office while you guys are building out. That’s leadership.

Jason Thelen: He is a leader. I can see him as a leader. He is a leader. He’s led crews. He’s led church things. He’s just he presents himself as a um alpha can take care of a situation.

Dr. Wegmann: Do you have employees? Yeah. You’re a leader.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. No. Yep. Yeah. They’re I don’t have to talk to them.

Dr. Wegmann: Well, yeah, because you hired some really capable, intelligent people.

Jason Thelen: Well, as time went on, Yeah. I ended up with the blessing of the two people that I have, Nelly and Clarky, are Yeah. beyond incredibly talented. They’re unbelievably perfect employees. Yeah, they are the best of the best. Literally, I I really don’t even need to be at my company anywhere. They can take care of every other part of it, you know. They’ve they’ve learned everything from me. Well, almost everything for me that they could.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure.

Jason Thelen: You know, and they’ve learned along the way and they’ve Yeah. They taught me they taught me along the way. Yeah. Yeah. It’s an amazing thing.

Dr. Wegmann: So, that’s leadership. And leadership doesn’t have to be a hierarchy. Yeah. You don’t have to be above people to lead.

Jason Thelen: Maybe I just put it in the wrong calendar category. I put it in an authority thing. I just always thought of it that way. I just I don’t want to be I never wanted to be anybody’s boss. I always tell them that all the time. I’m not the boss. I just I I invented this so you can ask me questions on it, but I have the answer.

Topic: Business Growing Pains: Scaling Up vs. Scaling Back

Dr. Wegmann: Well, is your plan to keep growing the business? Like, would you have to bring more people on?

Jason Thelen: No, I don’t plan on growing it. I did that um a couple investors ago. We did that format of going like um to market with them, having wholesale and everything like that. And I had Yeah, I think we had 11 employees at the time. That was no fun. No, it was it was a good personal challenge for me to be able to create production and SOPs and a structuring.

Dr. Wegmann: 55 minutesWhat’s an SOP?

Jason Thelen: Um systems of processing. Yep. You know, from beginning to end, kind of like the booklet of how to do everything, you know, includes everything. You’re hired. Read this booklet up to speed. Yeah. Create the booklets, then educate them, you know, on hand and stuff like that. Train somebody, watch them train somebody. It was cool. It was neat to do that. And it was neat to take what I had done by hand in a garage and put it into a facility with tools and stuff like that.

Dr. Wegmann: Out the window goes the artwork.

Jason Thelen: Yeah, to the most part I kept the art as best I could, which made a really difficult um marketing plan. Um it’s really hard to, you know, um offer duplicate art. Well, it’s it’s hard to offer a hundred different products rather than if you keep it in small batches like we do nowadays. you know, with 25 of these with the same picture and stuff like that and see market those. Um, but that was good as far as um my my structuring of production. I learned how to produce really really really fast and streamline it and make it really really really smooth. I always tell everybody I’m lazy by trade, so I try to make everything as easy as possible. Um, so it was healthy to do that, but it took away the ambiance of what the business was of, you know, I I we personally think by hand, beautiful handcrafted boards for you or for your family member or whatever and express yourself in some of the boards that you can buy in our store. We’re not building what you designed. Yeah. Kind of thing. Um, so as for the future little babe boards, I don’t want to I don’t want to grow it into that kind of aspect anymore. We were able to downsize from that. um during a a divorce of business. I’ve had multiples of those with partners.

Dr. Wegmann: That’s tough.

Jason Thelen: Yeah, it sucks. I’ve you know I me not being a businessman when I was approached by these brothers that you know brought me in and showed my name and lights and we’ll invest millions of dollars into you and we’re going to go global with this and everything else. Sounded kind of cool.

Dr. Wegmann: It did sound cool. I like what do I have to do? And they’re like you just have to build boards. Okay, I can do that. Oh yeah, it sounds like incredible. No problem. So that’s what I did.

Jason Thelen: Until you can’t build them fast enough to do millions. I built them more than fast enough. I built too many and nobody else took care of any marketing or sales or anything like that. Oh wow. So I had to reach out and that’s inverse of what I thought would happen.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah.

Jason Thelen: So yeah, I had to in in the middle of all that. Nelly was with me at the time. She was with me since the photo garage. Um so we had to figure out we had to learn sales and wholesale and stuff like that and make it happen because nobody else was making it happen.

Dr. Wegmann: How many boards did you have?

Jason Thelen: We had like 120 boards and stuff, you know.

Dr. Wegmann: And that’s a lot of product. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: You know, so that came to a head of me just constantly asking, “What are you going to do with all these boards? When are you going to hire a marketing person? When are you going to hire a salesperson? When are you where’s sales coming?” “Oh, just, you know, keep building boards. We’ll take care of it. We’ll take care of it eventually.” Like, you know, the overhead’s too high. And I was like, “Well, yeah, the overhead’s been extremely high. We have a bunch of employees and all we’ve been doing is building product that gets tower back.” Yeah. You know, we’re selling the whole time, but not, you know, not the volume. We were selling the way that Jason has always sold. Put it on Facebook and somebody will come buy it. you know, selling five a month when you’re building 26 a month. Yeah. You know, um, so that one came to a head and every, you know, did came down crash fire in flames, you know, had to had to fire everybody. Awful experience. Had to fire my own daughter. Don’t you never want to do that ever in your life. It was It was tough. Still to this day, every time I think about it, why did I get in a situation where I had to fire? Sucked. Um, but I had to let everybody go. Um, I fought tooth and nail with the brothers saying, you know, give me 60 days before you start fire sailing everything. Allow me to try to sell the the business as a package to somebody rather than just $100 for a board here and equipment out the door and stuff like that. And uh, in 37 days, I was able to find an investor that was willing to save me. Mhm. And then he came on, he’s the gentleman that I’m building the museum for still. So he came on for about two years, helped us settle into a small format and I brought back Nelly, who’s always been with me. I can’t do anything without her. She’s the brain for computer work and business books, everything. Anything that I can’t do, she, you know, I work with wood. That’s it. Um, and then Clerky was a kid that I’d hired when we had all those employees. I knew his mom. I went to school with his mom and uh hired him to sweep, clean, do little things here and there and throughout the, you know, year and a half, it was well, you know, helped this guy out with that and he started doing it better, you know, and he was always first one to work, last one there, always, always, always, always working late, always, you know, showing up early. Um, just fascinated by what he was doing, learning, real receptive to learning, real good. And uh when it came time after letting everybody go, like I said, it was like 37 days or something like that. Uh I called him up and like he think Oh, he was also I told everybody they had two weeks left and that two weeks we had to do our inventory and get everything solidified on paper and stuff like that for the possibility of purchase and then everybody go on unemployment after that, you know, go get jobs. And uh we I told him that on a Friday. On Monday he had another job and well, you can go to your job. He’s like, “No, I’ll finish up my two weeks.” All right, cool. So, he finished on his two weeks, but he had another job already lined up after that weekend. So, he started working at another job. Everybody else was on unemployment the whole time. So, in that 37 days, I called him back and he said, “You want me?” I wasn’t the best board builder. I was like, “I know, but you have the most potential. You had a job when I fired you, you and I was like, you’ve been working the whole time. Everybody else is on unemployment, not doing your life.” So, he came back. He’s still just fantastic. Unbelievable.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah, he’s talented, too, isn’t he?

Jason Thelen: Oh, god. Yeah, he’s I don’t tell him this. I think he’s better than me.

Dr. Wegmann: That’s got to be neat when you see somebody you’ve trained and be like, geez, that’s beautiful.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. I have to go to him sometimes. What would you do about this? That’s cool. It’s cool. Yeah.

Dr. Wegmann: Do you ever let him come up with designs?

Jason Thelen: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cuz basically, you’re leveraging someone else’s brand now. Yeah. He comes up with all kinds of designs. Some of our most popular sellers. You’re like, “Go with it.” Yep. Yeah. I usually primarily just take care of working with customers and custom work, designing that stuff out, but I’ll get it to a certain point and I just hand it to all yours now. He loves it, huh? Yeah. And he builds whatever he wants. And Ellie comes up with the designs. Everybody does their own thing. Like I said, I don’t have to talk to him. I really don’t feel like I need to be there most of the time. Yeah.

Dr. Wegmann: What a neat what a neat way to get to that point.

Topic: Community Impact and Intentional Craftsmanship

Jason Thelen: It’s unbelievable. Yep. Yeah. That’s the biggest thing is, oh, that’s what I was talking about when we were talking to that marketer and we’re trying to explain, you know, pathways and where you want to go with companies, stuff like that. I was like when I was a little garage builder so many years ago and trying to figure out what it was I was going to do to be able to make just a little extra money, maybe have enough money to make a payment on a car or something like that, you know, shared my wife and I shared a car time. Um, and then to be where I’m at now where we have us three employees handsomely paid with benefits and healthcare in a building that we’d love to go to. Lights are always on care of. Yeah, that’s gorgeous. Yeah, we’re allowed to I’m allowed to do things that we’re in a we’re in a financial situation with our partnership that we have now. um that like um the backlot just came to me a little while ago. I just posted on it last night. Um um they have their bar was all messed up. They have an outside bar and it gets messed up from the weather and everything, you know, and um the manager came over and he said, “Hey, you know know how to do stuff that can last outside?” And I was like, “Yeah.” He’s like, “I got this bar. Can you fix it?” I was looking at it. I was like, “I I can’t. It costs more to fix what you have here than it would to build. We build it.” Yeah. He’s like, “Well, you know, we have a small budget.” It’s like, “I understand your business. You know, I totally understand that.” I was like, “you know, what’s the cap of it? You know, does really pennies really in all honesty. Like, well, when that you give me that, am I allowed to do what I want? Does it say little bay boards across it?” No, it doesn’t. No, that would be awesome. I would be that obnoxious marketing. No, not that. Got your logo right there. But he’s like, yeah. He’s like, yeah, you know, don’t make it gody. And I was like, oh, no. You see everything around you? No, I trust you. So, having that freedom to be able to express myself in art and do something that is beyond the budget of what they had any whatsoever. build something that’s I feel it’s a monument. It’s just a bar.

Dr. Wegmann: You should stamp your little logo in the corner.

Jason Thelen: I probably won’t. No, actually I haven’t yet. It’s almost done now. But it’s just cool and it’ll be hopefully I’ll make an arrangement with them to have a a thing in the back if anybody asks about it. Like who built it? Yep. Yeah. Card.

Dr. Wegmann: Well, it was years ago you came over and did the swim platform on our wakeboard boat. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Didn’t make any money off that either because I was learning. You were learning?

Jason Thelen: Yep. Didn’t know that thing was gorgeous though. That was teak. Yeah. So that was kind of one of those ones where you have to refinish it every year. It never looked good. Right.

Dr. Wegmann: And then we we burned that big W on there. Mhm. Which obviously um was a W for our last name, but then it also matched the boat because it was called a wake setter. So it was kind of perfect. Yeah. And then if I remember correctly, you glassed it or something.

Jason Thelen: I did. I epoxied it. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And then it looked it it was all punky and everything. I didn’t realize that cheek had the oil base that it has in it. Beautiful. It did. It It took a couple times of doing it, remember? Because you wanted it and I had to ask keep it for like another week and keep working on it because it did not turn out the way that I wanted. Yeah. Once we got it back on the boat, it was phenomenal cuz it didn’t always looked finished. Yeah. Which was a really really nice look. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was just a learning curve that I had to make. But yeah, part of part of business. I made a lot of learning curves back then.

Dr. Wegmann: You’re welcome.

Jason Thelen: Thanks. It’s so fun that you learn. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Topic: The Philosophy of Sustainability vs. Hyper-Growth

Dr. Wegmann: I’ve got a obviously I take care of a lot of business owners. I hear some really neat philosophies. I’ve got some guys that scale businesses massive and grow and grow. And then you talk to like the the midsize and I ask them, hey, do you try to grow more or make more revenue every year? No, I just try to maintain. That’s all I want to do. Yeah. Yeah. you get to a a very comfortable spot where you can function well, make a good profit. Yeah. And that’s where that piece starts to come in.

Jason Thelen: Yep. Yeah. That’s once we figured out what our goal mission was to be and where we needed to be as far as balancing everything. That’s basically what we’re shooting for this year. We’re trying to change our digital platform to be able to broader reach, centralizing what it is that we make. Um, you know, it’s me as a person never say no to anything. You know, I build bars. I’m always doing something. So, and then I try not to take too many pictures of them or advertise it, you know, try to focus little boards, build paddle boards. That’s what we do, right? You know, and then um we build a couple wake boards and surfboards and little crinky things. I got you a gift for your boat. Little bottle opener. Look at that, by the way. Yeah. Oh jeez. Cuz we make smaller things because I’m always trying to figure out what to do with our wood. Whatever’s left over, you just make something else out of it. So, shi cutting boards. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Just to have all those little things for different, you know, the availability. Some people can’t afford a board, but they can afford a, you know, $25 bottle opener. That’s awesome. Yeah. But, um, I forget what I was talking about. Brain dead at the moment.

Dr. Wegmann: Just business in general. I was talking about

Jason Thelen: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I centralized it down this year. So, we’re just focused on that. And the growth pattern is just to figure out marketing wise how to stay sustainable. The platform of what our ability is, our ability We could comfortably build a 100 boards a year as long as we can sell those. We only technically need to sell 65 boards a year. That would be more comfortable life. Stay in that platform right there, you know.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. I’ve got a quote that says peace is more important than ambition.

Jason Thelen: Yeah. Yeah. I always tell everybody there’s two ways to be successful. One, you can be a millionaire and two, you can be happy. Those two, right? Yep.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. And there’s a lot of millionaires that aren’t happy.

Jason Thelen: Oh, I know tons of them. Yeah. Yeah. My clientele. Yeah. I’ve met a lot of them. Yep. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot of misery that comes if you don’t have things in the right order before that. Yeah. Comes on you. It’s not money that makes you happy.

Jason Thelen: No, it isn’t. So, it helps to goof around with stuff.

Topic: Family Transitions and Supporting the Next Generation

Dr. Wegmann: Well, it’s building a life that you have enough purpose. The purpose is so deep you want to give it away. Yeah. That’s Mhm. I mean, we and that’s what I kind of wrote on this when I have the purpose on here. Yeah. You know, you got your daily routine, your phase of life, responsibility, but then giving back, you know, like right now, part of your purpose is being a dad. You’ll always be a dad, but I mean, raising kids, and then one day the kids are gone. Yeah. Right. And if you just hold on to that identity indefinitely, you struggle, right, immensely.

Jason Thelen: My wife and I were talking about that a while back. Um, I don’t know that the children are ever actually gone. Your connection to them is always why they’re your children. you know, because they don’t live in the house, you don’t get that the daily event of feeding them and taking care of their laundry and stuff like that, but they’re still there. You know, my my oldest is I talk to her, I think, every day. She calls, you know, or every other day unless she’s like super busy down to college or whatever, but she calls just just She’s just driving home, you know, and we talk about whatever. You know, last night was a really meaningful conversation. She’s really struggling with um they have a band performance while we’re going down state two of them this weekend.

Dr. Wegmann: Sweet.

Jason Thelen: And then my sister-in-law’s got some flooding issues trying to help her out with. Um, but you know, she was really frustrated with how the the band’s going to be performing, what she feels is going to be happening, that this performance is not going to be to the par of what she she’d like.

Dr. Wegmann: She’s Yeah, she she lead vocals. She playing instrument. What she doing?

Jason Thelen: She um in jazz band, she’ll be playing saxophone.

Dr. Wegmann: That’s a neat sound.

Jason Thelen: Then she got classic um the classic band. She’s playing clarinet. Yeah, I think. But she plays everything. She’s talented. She plays every every instrument you can think of. She plays and that’s she’s going for a music major. So she required to learn how to play every every instrument. So So she already did that when before she ever started school. She played a lot of instrument. Um, but so and I was trying to explain to her, I was like, “Well, every every kid in your class isn’t in the same situation here.” And you love music for what the music is. This piece to you means more to you about where it came from, who wrote it, what century it was written in, what the guy was going through at the time of why it was written. Like, they have two weeks before they have to move out of college and figure out what they’re doing for the summer. It’s like, yeah, she’s taking it to a different level.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah.

Jason Thelen: I was like, “It’s more important to you.” I was like, “And that’s that’s something you’re going to find in life with every structure of every group of people that you’re you’re with than any given time.” I was like, “It’s the greatest downfall of rock, you know, of music, of any band. Some people take it serious, some people don’t, right? You just happen to take it serious. It means a lot to you, which unfortunately have to rely on other group to make it as well. Hopefully, she can make that her life music.” And yeah, she’s going she’s on track for it. So, yeah, she end up being a little band teacher.

Topic: Sourcing Local Materials and Exchanging Meaningful Gifts

Dr. Wegmann: All right. So, I got a little gift for you. And this is dangerous cuz you’re a wood man. So, this is crucifix. Olive wood. Olive wood from Jerusalem.

Jason Thelen: Oh, nice. Yes. The holy day. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So, yeah, that’s nice.

Dr. Wegmann: And that one’s designed to keep in your pocket and then if you’re ever in a leadership situation Mhm. Uh, you can hand it to somebody.

Jason Thelen: That’s awesome. Definitely if they need it. So, beautiful. I love olive wood. We got a couple olive wood cutting boards.

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah, I was going to say for someone that likes wood. Yeah. Yeah. What’s the most exotic wood you’ve built with?

Jason Thelen: Uh, we stay sustainably um forested from America. Okay. Um, so North America, Canada too a little bit here and there, but because of tariffs, can’t really get Canada for affordability prices. But um that was another trying moment for Little Bay boards was making sure that everything’s No, no tariffs. Uh everything’s made in America.

Dr. Wegmann: Gotcha.

Jason Thelen: All my resins, all my fiberglass, all my woods, everything’s sourced from America as locally as I can get it. Um obviously some woods are, you know, better grown out west and stuff like that. But I try to get them off mom and pop companies.

Dr. Wegmann: Sure.

Jason Thelen: And stuff like that. Um I’ve never tried to I’ve never done anything in the name of profit. I’ve done it. And then the name of what what means more. So yeah, all Americanmade products. Anything that we have like our leashes are an Americanmade company. Um and our straps are an Americanmade company as well. We don’t support anything American.

Dr. Wegmann: So what’s the lightest wood? Is it pine or cedar? Yeah. Is that whole board cedar?

Jason Thelen: Yeah, it is white cedar, red cedar. The really white wood is Colorado aspen. Use that for um accents on things because it’s just a really cool way to inlay stuff, you know. Yeah. And you can tell this is all reused, but it’s got wormhole stuff in it. It’s beautiful. Yeah, that was like old fascia or something like that. Mhm. At one time in his life. And then yeah, we have like old redwood. Redwood’s really really light, too. Um, we had a gentleman, Steven Cross, he’s a local lawyer. He was remodeling his house. I I believe it was either his wife’s parents house or his parents house growing up or something like that, but they had to tear out this wall. And he was like, “Yeah, we’re just going to paint all over it, but we decided we’d take it all out and I think this is kind of cool wood. You might like it.” I went over and looked at, like, “Oh, yeah. I’ll help you tear it off, man.” I was like, “I’ll take that for sure. Reuse it.”

Dr. Wegmann: Yep. Yeah.

Jason Thelen: So, yeah, I’ve been using that in a lot of different boards lately, but I have a big pile of it reserved specially for him for his dining room table to the point telling me when he wants his table kind of thing. So, yeah. Yeah, that would be fun. Very creative. Neat way to do it.

Jason Thelen: Yeah, I got a gift for you, too. Oh, I don’t know how much of a reader you are, but this book was gifted to me a while back. Um, I’m not a huge reader, as I told you before. I’m, you know, dyslexic. Um, so I have to make up all the names in there because I can’t I can’t pronounce them in my head because I can’t fully read them. Um, but I found it to be it was like a I’m going to take some more time off work because I got to get back to the book kind of thing.

Dr. Wegmann: Do you want me to open it now?

Jason Thelen: You can open it whenever you want. It’s not a big deal. Yeah, it’s just a it was just an impactful book for me. I just really enjoyed reading it and I’m going to save it. The person that gave it to me said the exact same thing to me. Like, dude, I I found myself taking time off of work to read this to read it. Yeah, that’s a powerful statement story. Yeah, it’s just and I love to read. Oh, good. Great. So, thank you. Hopefully, you haven’t already read it. Yeah. Yeah. I’ll open up and we’ll definitely do that.

Topic: Closing and Digital Availability

Dr. Wegmann: So, Jason, I want to thank you for your time.

Jason Thelen: Thanks for having me, man.

Dr. Wegmann: That’s a good one. You got a lot of wisdom.

Jason Thelen: No, I don’t know about that. Questioning it all every day.

Dr. Wegmann: You’re quite the leader. You’re just doing that folk now. No, it was it’s your story is so fascinating. Uh your art’s incredible. So, if somebody wants to someone hears this and wants to reach out to you, how do they get in touch with you? What’s the best way?

Jason Thelen: Uh you can find any contact information on our website at littlebayboards.com. Um uh our email, phone numbers on there, all the above. We have all the socials you can follow on that. You can directly reach out on that. We are a very small company, so it’s me that answers everything. Okay? You know, sometimes I’ll put the links on the bottom of these, too, so people can click them and get there. You can simply just Yeah. Just write down little bay boards. It’ll pop up all over Google. Luckily, we’ve been in business long enough to have that kind of SEO package stuff. Yeah. shows up, get several pages of different um articles and stuff like that that have been written and stories and whatnot. Uhand

Dr. Wegmann: Yeah. And uh obviously you’ll listen to the Purposemaker podcast. So you can find us at perposemaker.com. Um I do a lot of writing. So newsletter is the main way that I communicate with uh listeners and readers and then obviously this podcast. So yeah, follow us where you can. Thanks for being here and Jason, you have a great weekend.

Jason Thelen: Thanks, man.